13 Days Until Spring Training: Mike Pagliarulo

Baseball players have long been a superstitious bunch: don't step on the foul lines, don't talk to the pitcher during a no-hitter, keep your routine, eat your chicken before every game, virtually every action Turk Wendell ever took, etc.

So given triskaidekaphobia, fear of the the number 13, it's no surprise that the Yankees had been wearing uniform numbers for more than eight full seasons when rookie Spud Chandler became the first to wear it in 1937 . Even at that, it was one of three different numbers Chandler wore that year. The next year, journeyman Lee Stine wore it, and despite appearing in only four games, he too managed to wear two different uniform numbers during that time.

It would be ten years before the number was worn again, this time by rookie outfielder Cliff Mapes. He had begun the year wearing number 3, the eighth and final Yankee to wear the number after Babe Ruth. But with the Babe being terminally ill, the Yankees retired his former number on June 18th. Only then did Mapes switch to number 13, and by 1949 he had switched to number 7, perhaps making him the only man to share uniform numbers with not one but two different Yankee legends.

The number didn't emerge again until 1970. It was worn by Curt Blefary for a season and a half, then after a two year break, by Walt "No Neck" Williams for two more. It went back into the mothballs for five years, until bit players Bobby Brown and Keith Smith wore it for two seasons each, amassing just 174 games between them. Through 57 seasons of numbered Yankee uniforms, 13 had been worn sparingly by just eight men who either couldn't get rid of the number fast enough or whom the club couldn't rid themselves of fast enough.

In mid-1984 the Yankees recalled Mike Pagliarulo from Columbus. Issued the same number Don Mattingly wore in his first two seasons, 46, Pags quickly established himself as the starting third baseman. For 1985 he switched to number 6 and slugged 19 home runs in his first full season.

The following year, Roy White rejoined the coaching staff. He had worn number 6 for the final eleven years of his playing career, as well as during his previous stint as a Yankee coach. Pags relinquished his number to White, and donned the seemingly unwanted number 13. He went on to hit 28 home runs that year, then led the team with 32 in homer happy 1987. Elbow injuries soon began to sap him of his power at the plate and his arm strength in the field, and he was traded to San Diego in mid-1989.

Pags was a fan favorite during his five years manning the hot corner for the Yankees. He was the first Yankee to wear the supposedly cursed number for any extended period, but has since been surpassed by another third baseman as the most successful Bronx Bomber to don the number. Pagliarulo was kind enough to agree to an interview with us last summer. You can revisit it here and here.

Closing Out The Holiday

Well, we had a little fun today, mostly at the expense of others. That's not the ideal way to go about things, but hey, we've got four days of down time to fill. We started the morning focusing on the Columbus Day Holiday, so we might as well finish the day that way too.

I can't claim this as an original idea, because I do remember seeing this somewhere on the web before, but I don't remember the exact composition of the roster. Either way, in honor of the Genoa-born Columbus, here's my all-time, all-Italian Yankee team. You'll note a couple guys have been moved to their secondary positions in order to cover the whole field:

SP: Vic Raschi
RP: Dave Righetti
C: Rick Cerone
1B: Jason Giambi
2B: Tony Lazzeri
3B: Mike Pagliarulo
SS: Phil Rizzuto
LF: Yogi Berra
CF: Joe DiMaggio
RF: Joe Pepitone
DH: Steve Balboni

Coaching Staff: Joe Torre, Billy Martin, Joe Girardi, Frank Crosetti

Of all those guys, Bye-Bye Balboni, Pags, and Rags were the only ones ever to play for the Columbus Clippers.

That's it for me paesans. I'm heading home to eat some lasagna. Enjoy your evening. Take it away Signor Prima...

Pags Interview Part 2

As we mentioned earlier this week, former Yankee third baseman Mike Pagliarulo recently agreed to an email interview with us.

Part One ran yesterday and focused on Pags' time with the Yankees from 1984-89.

Here's the conclusion, covering Pags' playing career after leaving the Yanks as well as what he's been up to in his post-playing days.

Once again, our thanks to Pags for taking the time to do this. Don't forget to check out Dugout Central, backed by Pags' Baseline Group, for more baseball coverage.


Matt Bouffard: In July of 1989 you were traded to San Diego. What was that experience like for you after having been in the Yankees organization since being drafted in 1981?

Mike Pagliarulo: I did not like leaving New York. I felt it was my home, and the place that gave me a professional baseball life through an opportunity. I’ll never forget that, and I’ll always be grateful to the Steinbrenner family and the personnel working for the Yankees. I would not have wanted a start to my career any other way.

MB: After your stint in San Diego, you found yourself with Minnesota for the 1991 season. You had a great post-season, batting .308 with a pair of home runs, including an extra inning game winner in Game 3 of the ALCS. What are your lasting memories of being part of that championship team, and playing in one of the most memorable World Series ever?

MP: Everyone from Little League to the Majors always talks about teamwork. The best companies in the world use team building characteristics during their interview process every day. Playing in that series I felt the meaning of teamwork. I mean, I felt the true essence of its existence. From trust, coordinating plans, and investigating the opposition, I realized what the true value of “team” meant. I was also aware of the elements and characteristics of skill. By the way, none of these points are illustrated or represented by data anywhere yet they are the most significant factors of skill and how baseball is played. Funny thing, I can describe it to millions of people and they’ll understand exactly what I’m talking about. But in the game of baseball today, that particular description is considered subjective because it doesn’t fit into someone’s formula.

MB: You spent the 1994 season playing in Japan with the Seibu Lions. What were your impressions of the Japanese game? Did you encounter any anti-gaijin sentiment?

MP: I appreciate the Japanese way of playing baseball but more thananything else, I respect their approach. In Japan there are no standards of play yet all the players practice basically the same technique. They are very disciplined as a culture; we could learn a lot from them. It’s no surprise they’ve won the WBC twice. They prepare better.

MB: What sort of connections did you make in Japan? How did it help in starting your Pacific Rim scouting group?

MP: The Japan teams need the same type of help the MLB teams need. The only difference is that in Japan they’re losing talent because the American teams steal their players. American teams are losing talent because they forgot how to develop players. I merely bridge the gap of cultural differences and assist in combing the needs of the two biggest baseball markets to make everyone benefit.

MB: Some Yankee fans have been critical of your group's role in theKei Igawa signing. What's your side of the story on this issue? Do you think Kei Igawa could succeed as a Major League pitcher, perhaps outside of the AL East?

MP: Let me correct you on that. Yankee fans know exactly what they’re looking at because they love researching the players. I suggest they weren’t real Yankee fans. Because in this instance, those same people don’t know how Matsui was acquired and they probably think I had nothing to do with Matsui either! I did the work and got all the information on Matsui and advised on all the other Japan negotiations. That’s a fact. It saved the Yankees about $8 million and helped developed the relationships they currently have there too. When the front office wanted little Matsui (Kaz Matsui) I was the only one who said no, and with good reason. I’ve got a good reason for all my decisions.

Then they changed the process for signing Pacific Rim players when Igawa was available: no more conference calls and no more collaborative meetings. Kei Igawa could succeed as a Major League pitcher. Keep in mind my business is consulting and players have roles determined by the various MLB teams. Igawa could play, but not for the New York Yankees. Igawa could play for a second-division type club and on the back end of the rotation. His success would not be good either. But, if you look at the talent out there and you’ve got pitchers in their forties getting extensions because the talent development isn’t like it once was, he (Igawa) can most definitely play.

The rest is history. My group has projected more than $350 million of player contract value and has never been wrong. We are the foremost leader in projecting risk of injury and talent for championship roles. I’ve got data to back all research findings for risk of injury and skill value. Assigning a player to a role is a piece of cake. Do you actually think I’d still be working if I was wrong about a player when millions of dollars are on the line? Our prediction models and research far exceeds most MLB teams because it’s all we focus on. We have to be right, so we don’t scout. We use a unique system capable of measuring performance and projecting risk. I’m really not sure with all those millions why other teams aren’t doing the same.

MB: What's going on with the Baseline Group these days? What are your plans for the future of the organization?

MP: The plan is to help support the foundation of baseball. That is done by understanding the core elements of how the game was built, and then protecting those interests: Ownership, fans, players. Leadership provides the environment. Players compete at a high level of skill to provide unique value. Fans justify that value. The focus is those areas and they’re all connected. They are the most significant part ofthe game; to think otherwise would be a mistake. The future looks very bright, and with a little help we’ll be able to purchase a minor league team and implement development as owners so that other ownership groups can benefit. The main benefit would be to create transparency for owners. I believe things are the way they are because the metrics associated with measuring value stinks. Baseball is the only industry that is unable to value the core assets of its businesses; that is a shame. The owners, fans, and players deserve more and it doesn’t start with money because everyone doesn’t have money. It begins with respect.

MB: At the Closing Ceremonies for Yankee Stadium last year, you were featured in the montage of former Yankee third basemen. Were you watching that night? What was that honor like for you?

MP: I missed the ceremonies last year, I’m sorry to say. But I have fond memories always. That day might have been the greatest but it comes second to the people I was able to share baseball and friendship with all around the Stadium. Honestly, I can see that batting cage as clear as a bell, and feel the fans along the third base line, and picture The Boss pacing around his suite; pacing because he always wanted to win so very badly. Those memories will never fade, because the fans won’t let it. I thank them for the great honor of recognizing me and keeping those thoughts in the front of my mind. I’m reminded today everywhere I travel by New York Yankee fans. It’s the greatest feeling.

MB: What's it like being a former Yankee living outside Boston these days? You get any flack for that? Didn't you grow up as a Yankee fan, and if so, how did that come about, and what was it like to be a Yankee fan in Medford during the 1970s?

MP: My dad was the biggest Billy Martin fan ever. We grew up in Boston and everyone was a Red Sox fan except him. When I was a kid I always thought my father was right except when it came to the Yankees. Well, after my first big league spring training where I met the big league guys for the first time; I said, “Dad you were right again!” The Yankee organization was built on class and respect and everyone I met there was the same way. Back in Boston I still caught heat, but nobody gives out that much crap without being scared!

Mike Pagliarulo Interview: Part One

Mike Pagliarulo was selected by the Yankees out of the University of Miami in the sixth round of the 1981 Amateur Draft. Recalled in July of 1984, Pags served as the Yankee third baseman for the next five years before being traded to the San Diego Padres. He won a World Series with the Minnesota Twins in 1991, and played for the Baltimore Orioles, Seibu Lions in Japan, and the Texas Rangers before retiring at the conclusion of the 1995 season. A fan favorite during his time with the Yanks, Pags has been a frequent guest at Old Timers' Day since his retirement.

Since retiring, Pags has worked in scouting and consulting. He founded the Baseline Group, which seeks to provide business solutions for baseball, and recently started the non-profit start-up Baseball Institute of Development.

As we mentioned Tuesday, Pagliarulo graciously agreed to an email interview with me in July. Much of the interview was posted at River Ave. Blues Tuesday, but as promised, we'll run the full interview in its entirety here. Part One is below; we'll finish it up tomorrow.

Matt Bouffard: Rickey Henderson was inducted into the Hall of Fame this summer. He's one of baseball's most colorful characters. Do you have any good Rickey stories from your years as his teammate?

Mike Pagliarulo: I spent five years as his teammate. Plenty of stories, but most are kept under wraps. I will say that he was the most incredible athlete I’ve played on the same team with. Bo Jackson was the best I’ve ever played against but Rickey was the best on my teams. His body fat was something like 3.9% and his God-given ability was second to none. When Rickey wanted to do something, he did it. He could control a baseball game. I just can’t imagine having to pitch to him five times a day! Never forget one year, my good friend Donny Mattingly wasn’t swinging the bat very well during the first few months of the season yet he was one of the league leaders in RBI. Every time Donny got to the plate it seemed there was one out and Rickey was on third base. All Donny had to do was make contact and he had an RBI. Funny thing was, Donny usually did more than just make contact.

MB: After coming up in mid-1984, you're first full season with the Yanks was 1985. That was a tumultuous year: Yogi Berra was fired just 16 games into the season and Billy Martin returned for his fourth stint as Yankee manager. You guys spent all summer chasing Toronto, clawed back into the race, and went north of the border for the season's final weekend needing a three game sweep to force a playoff. What was that pennant race like for you and what was the let down like getting eliminated that Saturday?

MP: Tumultuous is a word associated with New York. And it’s not a bad word. I’d like to refer to playing under certain scrutiny and pressure as the way it is supposed to be! We aren’t babies and people pay lots of money to see you play. I hate it when tabloids side with the poor player who’s under so much pressure while making 10 million dollars. That doesn’t appear to match.

1985 was the year in which I learned more about Mr. Steinbrenner than any other. I never realized how much he wanted to win until the last month of the season. One example was during September when we returned from a night game in Milwaukee. The game was late and the flight was delayed. We’d got into Newark airport about 6 AM and the Boss had limos waiting for everyone to take them home. We had a game that night. I couldn’t believe that such a cool and generous thing could be done without being in the press.

MB: Follow up question to that: after being eliminated, Phil Niekro won his 300th career game on the season's final day. What was it like to be a part of that?

MP: That was one of the best games I’ve played in. Knucksie was a true professional and I was so happy for him. Funny thing about that game, he didn’t throw a single knuckleball until the last pitch of the game.

MB: Those years probably weren't quite as wild as the Bronx Zoo years of the late 70s, but they were by no means calm. What was it like playing for George Steinbrenner in his heyday? Any thoughts on him stepping to the background now and allowing his sons to take over?

MP: The Boss was the best, no question. He was the best at taking care of his investment. He was the best at checks and balances, and he always knew what he had in the system - and that’s a much different scenario than today. Back then, we had the most players in the Major Leagues (coming from the Yankees’ system) and we had the best player development system in the world. Facts that are indisputable even with the abundance of players, fields, training methods in the industry today.

I believe the family will do just as good a job because they are all incredibly intelligent and driven; that’s kind of in the blood. I truly wish them the best of luck. Funny thing is, I feel so grateful that the Boss gave me the opportunity to put my kids through college. If he were to ask me to do anything in the world, I’d do it, and wouldn’t ask for compensation. The Steinbrenner family has no idea what it means to me that I can provide for my children and I’m so fortunate and forever grateful. That’s what the Boss means to me.

MB: In your Yankee career you played for three of the most interesting and well-liked men in Yankee history: Yogi, Billy, and Lou Piniella. What was it like playing for them? Were Billy and Lou as temperamental as they seemed? Lou was just getting his start as a manager then, how much of his style did he borrow from his mentor Billy?

MP: Billy and Lou were very much alike. I loved playing for both of them. Tremendous offensive managers and they could see the field so well. Both Lou and Billy had game plans and it was pretty difficult to outsmart them. Yogi was different in that he didn’t scream and holler as much. But to me, they were all in the same category of baseball knowledge and gamesmanship. I was lucky to have played for such great men.

MB: Follow-up: Is it true that Billy tried to get you to bat right handed at some point? I can't seem to find any record of that happening in a game.

MP: Yes, I batted right handed once against Detroit. In 1985, we played a simulated game at Yankee Stadium for one of our pitchers, Marty Bystrom, who was on the DL. Simulated games normally take place at 3 PM, prior to batting practices. On this day Scott Bradley (now the Princeton baseball coach) was the left handed hitter and we needed a right handed hitter. So I volunteered.

Simulated games, if done properly, are helpful and the coaching staff at the time, which included Billy, didn’t want me to do it. They wanted the game to be very serious. After I reassured them I was serious and that I’d switch hit in high school, college, and my first year as a pro, they let me hit right handed off of Bystrom. Well, I got something like four hits with a ball off the right field wall.

The coaches couldn’t believe it and Billy was pissed at me. He said I should stay right handed and continue switch hitting. The real reason for that was Billy liked me in there every day as he felt our team defense was much better with me at third base.

The next road trip was to Detroit and in a tie game in the sixth inning, he handed me a helmet for a right handed hitter. I honestly didn’t want to do it because I didn’t feel I was prepared but I didn’t want to get taken out of the game either. I ended up doing it and struck out. Billy caught a ton of crap for that, but I know what he was thinking. It wasn’t a bad move if I’d have been prepared and actually, it was quite ingenious.

MB: After belting 28 HRs in 1986, in '87, you led the team in HRs with 32, besting teammates Don Mattingly and Dave Winfield. What was that like for you? And when did you suffer the elbow injury that sapped your power in later years?

MP: I never bested a teammate at anything. As a team we finished second and third those years I think. I had two elbow surgeries in a row; 1987 and 1988. The second one was a killer, ulnar nerve surgery; that has a 9-12 month rehab. After having the surgery in November of‘ '88, I tried to play that spring training. Couldn’t throw and had to change my swing. I really believe that if Lou Piniella stayed in the organization I would have gotten back to my old form. He was one of the best hitting coaches and a big reason why I hit those HRs in Yankee Stadium.

MB: Speaking of injuries, didn't you once break your nose on an HBP and return to the line-up the next day? Tell us a little about that.

MP: On a Friday night in Oakland I was hit in the face by a Curt Young fastball. Actually the ball glanced off my wrist first as I tried to block it. It wasn’t Young’s fault, it was mine. A good lesson for young kids is knowing how to turn on the ball coming from the pitcher. I turned the wrong way when I opened up attempting to hit an inside fastball, but the ball just chased me and knocked my nose from one side to the next. It was pretty ugly actually.

I remember Lou Piniella was the manager and he was the first person I saw when they took the towel from my face. After about 10-15 minutes on the ground, they stood me up and took the towel away from my face. I first saw Lou and he said “Oh my God” then turned away. Young had a three run lead and got sick to his stomach; he had to be taken out of the game. Then they took me on a stretcher to the training room and then to the hospital until 2 AM.

Saturday was a day game and I was still bleeding from my mouth and nose. I couldn’t stay on the bench; I guess I was too much of adistraction. On Sunday I was very anxious and requested to play. I didn’t care how I did, my goal was to simply get back in the flow. Lou put me in the lineup and they pasted these bandages on my face for the game. Well, the bandages helped because it actually fixed my alignment at the plate and improved my swing. After that, I went on a pretty good tear.

MB: Any favorite story or memory from your Yankee years that you'd like to share?

MP: Sure, I’ll give you the one that’s the best. A few years ago they asked all the former Yankees, “What was your best day as a Yankee?” Players were reminiscing about their 5 for 5 days and near no-hitters. But, mine was easier than that. It was my first Old-Timers game when I was a player on the team. Joe DiMaggio was in my locker and Whitey Ford was right near him. Yogi, Hank Bauer, Moose Skowron, etc, etc. DiMaggio was talking to me but I couldn’t say a word. It was Joe DiMaggio for God’s sake.

Then there was a quiet in the locker room as Billy Martin and Mickey Mantle came walking through the middle of the place. All of a sudden, all everyone could hear was Mickey’s voice as he lifted his arm and pointed his finger at me, “Hey Billy, is that the guy?” Well, I wasn’t sure what I did wrong but I was ready to apologize for anything. When the god of New York says something to you, you shut up and listen. Then they walked towards me and I felt a feeling of panic set in and didn’t know what to do. Mickey Mantle reaches his arm around my neck and gets me in a headlock. He was wrestling me to the ground! Then he pulled me into the trainers’ room which was across the locker room and began to hit me with light punches in my sides. Just then, he and Billy began laughing as Mickey said, “Hey kid what’s up? How are you? Love the way you play and glad to have you on board.”

Mickey Mantle had just wrestled me to the ground and pulled me out of Joe DiMaggio’s locker (which was mine) to tell me he liked the way I played baseball. Can there ever be a better day than that?


[We'll be back with the conclusion of the interview tomorrow]

An Interview With Mike Pagliarulo

Mike Pagliarulo was the Yankees' third baseman from July of 1984 until he was traded to San Diego in July of 1989. He was one of my childhood favorites.

Pags' Baseline Group backs the website Dugout Central, where I contributed before joining Fack Youk. He agreed to an email interview with me last month. We'll run the full interview in a few parts later this week, but a sneak preview with some of the highlights is currently posted at River Ave Blues.

If you're reading here, you're likely already reading at RAB, but if you're not, you really should be. Either way, head on over and give it a read. And be sure to check back here later this week for the full interview.

(Photo from the NY Post)